Comments on: The saboteurs of democracy http://www.grailcode.com/archives/the-saboteurs-of-democracy The Holy Grail in history and in modern culture Thu, 20 Nov 2008 11:40:07 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.0.2 by: The Grail Code» Blog Archive » Great books: what really happens in the classroom http://www.grailcode.com/archives/the-saboteurs-of-democracy#comment-26459 Tue, 09 Oct 2007 16:45:06 +0000 http://www.grailcode.com/archives/the-saboteurs-of-democracy#comment-26459 [...] So we were just about to talk about what happens in the classroom in a “great-books” education. [...] […] So we were just about to talk about what happens in the classroom in a “great-books” education. […]

]]> by: The Grail Code» Blog Archive » Am I being fair? http://www.grailcode.com/archives/the-saboteurs-of-democracy#comment-26458 Tue, 09 Oct 2007 16:43:08 +0000 http://www.grailcode.com/archives/the-saboteurs-of-democracy#comment-26458 [...] And so I’m brimming with things to say about the Great Books, whatever they are, but first a small distraction. A kind reader has asked me whether I’m really being fair about the “aim” of American education, which I said was not to teach but to create a kind of caste system. Surely, he says, the real aim is to find which students need help, so that they can get the help they need. Granted, that doesn’t happen as efficiently as we’d like, but “it doesn’t seem right to me to interpret a deficiency in practice as an ‘aim.’” [...] […] And so I’m brimming with things to say about the Great Books, whatever they are, but first a small distraction. A kind reader has asked me whether I’m really being fair about the “aim” of American education, which I said was not to teach but to create a kind of caste system. Surely, he says, the real aim is to find which students need help, so that they can get the help they need. Granted, that doesn’t happen as efficiently as we’d like, but “it doesn’t seem right to me to interpret a deficiency in practice as an ‘aim.’” […]

]]> by: Occasus http://www.grailcode.com/archives/the-saboteurs-of-democracy#comment-25755 Mon, 24 Sep 2007 18:49:11 +0000 http://www.grailcode.com/archives/the-saboteurs-of-democracy#comment-25755 Just curious: have you read John Gatto's "Underground History of American Education"? Just curious: have you read John Gatto’s “Underground History of American Education”?

]]> by: Stephen http://www.grailcode.com/archives/the-saboteurs-of-democracy#comment-25568 Fri, 21 Sep 2007 02:30:20 +0000 http://www.grailcode.com/archives/the-saboteurs-of-democracy#comment-25568 (Doh! I meant "cui bono", of course.) (Doh! I meant “cui bono”, of course.)

]]> by: Stephen http://www.grailcode.com/archives/the-saboteurs-of-democracy#comment-25567 Fri, 21 Sep 2007 02:29:51 +0000 http://www.grailcode.com/archives/the-saboteurs-of-democracy#comment-25567 Well... I'm no proponent of the public school system as we know it, but surely the aim of the now 'traditional' educational system with frequent, standardized testing isn't to create divisions and stratifications, but rather to be able to discern, through measurement, whether the students are in fact learning, so that remediation is possible. What would be the point otherwise? I think it's just a product of our modern scientific/industrial approach to how to do things. Of course, in *practice* the remediation part is a lot harder than throwing the teaching out there and seeing what sticks, and perhaps it rarely actually gets done. But it doesn't seem right to me to interpret a deficiency in practice as an "aim". No? Do you assert that we ought to go through a 'qui bono' exercise to see something else going on? Well… I’m no proponent of the public school system as we know it, but surely the aim of the now ‘traditional’ educational system with frequent, standardized testing isn’t to create divisions and stratifications, but rather to be able to discern, through measurement, whether the students are in fact learning, so that remediation is possible. What would be the point otherwise? I think it’s just a product of our modern scientific/industrial approach to how to do things.

Of course, in *practice* the remediation part is a lot harder than throwing the teaching out there and seeing what sticks, and perhaps it rarely actually gets done. But it doesn’t seem right to me to interpret a deficiency in practice as an “aim”. No? Do you assert that we ought to go through a ‘qui bono’ exercise to see something else going on?

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